Overleg gebruiker:(WT-nl) 3wisemen

• Ha 3wisemen, ben nu drie weken aangemeld bij Wikitravel maar kan nog steeds de Nederlandse Barcelona-pagina niet bewerken (en dat is hard nodig;) Weet jij wat het probleem is of waar ik de oplossing moet zoeken? (WT-nl) Matt 5 aug 2008 14:41 (EDT)

• je bent vandaag ook al vroeg bezig :-D

yep, vandaag had ik er zin in !!! Doorgaans zijn er inderdaad niet zo veel actievelingen, ik denk eens dat er mooie artikels zijn dat je kan spreken van een sneeuwbaleffect. Het leuke is dat je heel vrij bent om te doen wat je wil als je alleen bezig bent en nog veel structuur kan inbrengen. Eens er veel links zijn komen er veel dependencies en dan wordt het moeilijker.

• 3 wisemen : ik zoek nog een manier om een bestemming een "rating" te geven. Ik had al een oplossing:

wat vind je ervan? Dat kan je bijvoorbeeld zien in Roemenië. Misschien moet ik er een sjabloon van maken. Een goede toeristische gids geeft onmiddelijk zijn geheimen prijs vind ik. In een oogopslag krijg je te zien wat er te zien is :-).

• ik zoek nog een manier om een map te maken van artikels, een complete reisgids voor een land. Bijvoorbeeld, stel, volgende week vetrek op vakantie naar Roemenië en ik wil een wikitravel reisgids afdrukken voor roemenië. Dat ben je dus uren bezig he, want je moet alle links volgen en telkens op printknopje duwen. Ik wil gewoon alles achter elkaar. Of bijvoorbeeld een printqueue.

of een pdf :-). Heb ik geprobeerd maar dit wil hij niet uploaden.

• In het artikel van Azië zou ik wel degelijk het werelderfgoed in punten vermelden en zoals op de hoofdpagina een max. aantal links zetten. Dus artikels in de kijker zetten. Nog wat experimenteren daarmee. Anders moet de lezer weeral naar een andere pagina gaan en dan kunnen we er ratings bijzetten. Inderdaad, als we werkelijk alles vermelden krijgen we een lijst van 50 ofzo. hetzelfde in Europa, de historisch steden van europa spreken je van honderden.

• Inderdaad, de verwijzing naar meer zou ik ook doen... Er mag ook wat "circulatie" zijn in dat overzicht. Eens een ander artikel in het menu zetten kan ook wel. Dat maakt het voor frequente lezers interessanter en uiteindelijk is het zeer moeilijk om uit een lijst van 50 uit te maken wat nu het meeste waarde heeft.

Als we nu ergens kunnen toelaten dat een .pdf kunnen uploaden dan zijn we gered !

--> heb ook geantwoord op evan, administrator is voor mij ook ok. er zijn toch meerdere administrators nodig. liason mag je gerust doen.

Hierarchie

dag 3WM, Ik heb vandaag voor alle landen van de wereld een artikel aangemaakt, als ze nog geen artikel hadden. En ik heb alle navigatiesjablonen aangevuld. Je moet maar eens controleren op de juistheid. We moeten eens overleggen over de hierarchie van de wikitravel artikels. Ik heb ook de leeg status aangemaakt want eigenlijk mogen artikels zonder tekst niet blijven bestaan dus heb ik een speciale status gemaakt. Anders kan ik de navigatiesjablonen en het artikel (landen van de wereld) niet testen. Washy.

-- Ola Washy, goed werk! Zal vandaag eens kijken, hoewel ik niet al te veel tijd heb.

• ik heb nog wat nagedacht over de hierarchie van de continenten: heb de indeling van wikitravel English eens bekeken, bv. om het over Afrika te hebben: Noord-Afrika, Sahara-Afrika, West-Afrika, Centraal Afrika, Oost-Afrika, Zuiders-Afrika om het over Afrika te hebben. Ik ben nog niet helemaal overtuigd van die werkwijze maar vind ze wel niet slecht. Het is zo sterk geografisch en administratief gericht. Ik zou nog wat moeten lezen over Afrika om mij te informeren of er geen andere oplossing is die meer toeristisch is en minder encyclopedisch.

Bulgarije

onze vriend bakt ze bruin in Bulgarije volgens mij is dat letterlijk overgetikt van de ANWB reisgids of een andere reisgids of van een internetsite. Het zou moeten lukken dat iemand zo'n teksten uit zijn mouw schudt en dan nog eens de moeite niet doet om de help pagina te lezen. Ik stel voor om hem proberen te overtuigen een account aan te maken, dan kunnen we met de gebruiker overleggen en uitleggen hoe het moet en dan kan hij meewerken en verklaren hoe hij de tekst heeft opgesteld, indien hij geen account wil aanmaken zou ik de troep er af gooien want het is 99% copyright vermoed ik en nog eens rare tekst ook. Je commentaar op de overleg pagina van Bulgarije heeft hij duidelijk niet gelezen, spijtig genoeg.

-- Ben het helemaal met je eens! Vindt je de oplossing zoals die er nu staat een goede?

yep, ik vind hem zeer goed.

weekend

Dit weekend zal ik niet veel schrijven, ik zit in Keulen en Dusseldorf en op cafe :-). Alhoewel als ik een gaatje heb zal ik wat schrijven (uit verslaving). Ik zal zien dat ik misschien enkele foto's in Keulen en Dusseldorf kan nemen om te posten op wikitravel shared en toevoegen aan artikel.

Voor de rest, stel ik voor dat we nog werken aan de hierarchie (zoals Evan) had voorgesteld. Dus continenten, subcontinenten,...

Hoe we het juist gaan doen in verband met de continenten/subcontinenten/ en de toeristische invalshoek en de navigatiesjablonen werelddelen weet ik nog niet juist. Heb je een idee? De onderverdeling voor sjabloon werelddelen Afrika/Azië/Centraal-Amerika/Europa/Noord-Amerika/Oceanië/Zuid-Amerika vind ik zo saai.

bijvoorbeeld midden-oosten en caribische eilanden zijn geen continenten maar eerder onderverdelingen die er al tussen staan en het interessant maken, ken je er nog zo'n?

Alhoewel het midden-oosten een deel is van Azië kan het bijvoorbeeld in het navigatiesjabloon werelddelen ook komen te staan, dat bedoel ik. Dus het artikel van middenoosten IsIn Azië maar staat ook in het navigatiesjabloon.

statistieken en liason rapporten

ik had het idee voor in de statistieken : aantal artikels en hun status.. Bijvoorbeeld: aantal lege, aantal beginnertjes, aantal sterartikels. Zo krijgen we een idee over de status van wikitravel nederlands en de evolutie er van. Dan moeten we wel goed de status van de artikels opvolgen en de statussen goed omschrijven en waarschijnlijk nog enkele statussen bijmaken.

edit-conflict

zeg beste vriend, kijk eens eerst vooral je een artikel editeert, ik was aan het schrijven aan Europa en ben nu mijn tekst kwijt.

Dat heb ik ook wel eens gehad, maar dat hoeft niet te betekenen dat je de tekst kwijt bent, Ik kon in ieder geval met de back knop terug naar mijn tekst en deze alsnog met knippen plakken erin zetten. Maar alle, zal beter opletten. Was nl op zoek naar Europese landen om meer beginnetjes van te maken.

Antwoord voor Washy: Vuurvos en IE

Ola Washy, je vraag is dan wel even weggehaald, maar het antwoord is dat ik beide gebruik. Zojuist had ik overigens een conflict op jouw gebruikerspagina, en met Firefox bleef mijn eigen tekst keurig staan en kon ik alsnog deze tekst toeveogen.

Admin

You and Canshun are now admins. Let me know if there's anything else you need! Thanks for the great work you're doing. --(WT-nl) Evan 22 mrt 2007 14:39 (EDT)

[en] Open Directory

Hi! Glad things are going so well on nl:. Please feel free to let me know if there's anything you need.

I'm writing mainly because I've been reviewing links to Wikitravel in the Open Directory, and I noticed there's not a link to Wikitravel nl:. I'd submit the URL (http://wikitravel.org/nl/) myself, but I don't speak Dutch well enough to give a good description. Would you mind doing it? I think it should go in this category: http://dmoz.org/World/Nederlands/Recreatie/Reizen/ , but if there's a more specific category for guidebooks or directories, that might be better. Thanks, --(WT-nl) Evan 5 apr 2007 15:02 (EDT)

Hi Evan, literally just back (touch down less than 1 hour ago) from some traveling. I'll get back to you on this one since I'll have to look into the dmoz.org etc. Happy easter anyway. Cheers. {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 8 apr 2007 15:45 (EDT)}

Asked for listing. {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 11 apr 2007 02:02 (EDT)}

Rule of 9

Does this language version use the maximum of 9 city listings in country and region articles, like the English and several other language versions? I notice some articles have a very long list of cities. (WT-nl) Texugo 23 mei 2007 21:16 (EDT)

This language version follows pretty much the the same rules as the English version, one would hope. The place was abandoned -- Everybody here had left after the Inter brands deal came through-- when Washy/Canshun and I started here early 2007. We have concentrated on two things: me on creating (read translating) as many relevant project pages as possible, he on the structure of the destination articles by creating formats, regions etc. Both of us have done some real content filling but that wasn't the priority yet. I have seen some listings that are longer than they should be. But I think it's better to have some information to get people started than no information at all. i.e. Look at Bulgaria, according to the rules the article could be rearranged. But I have no clue about the country and no time so I've left it like that. But anyone who has time for it and knowledge of it can change it to the English rules knowing that it should be good. {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 24 mei 2007 03:14 (EDT)}

29104 Quimper Cedex

I keep seeing things like "29104 Quimper Cedex" listed at the end of addresses. Is this some kind of postal code, or...? Most language versions don't list postal codes, if that's what it is. How about here. What is this part of the listing? (WT-nl) Texugo 29 mei 2007 07:43 (EDT)

I think you're referring to these old pages of regions in France?! Most definitely a zip-code. However, funny you are mentioning that. I was thinking about that since I read recently that they are not part of the address info on Wiktravel. In some cases, however, when you are a little bit aware of the way the postal codes are set up in a city or a country, they can seriously come in handy when you need a hotel near the conference hall or near the party district. For now though, I'd say, follow the rules and get rid of them when coming across them, but leave the Quimper since that is the village in the "departement" Finistere. {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 29 mei 2007 08:11 (EDT)}

Listing templates

If you are wanting to use Email: and Fax:, you might want to change the way the eat template displays listings. It uses lowercase fax: and doesn't say email at all. Example taken from Bangkok/Sukhumvit:

<eat name="L'Opera" url="http://www.lopera-bangkok.com" address="53/1 Soi 39, Sukhumvit Road" phone="+66-2-258-5606" email="contact@lopera-bangkok.com" fax="+66-2-258-5599" hours="11.30-14.30PM, 17:00- 23:00" price=""> Geopend in 1984, is dit het oudste echte Italiaanse restaurant in Bangkok, en wellicht in Thailand. Hoewel gevestigd als de Italiaan voor de Thaise sterren, politici en de lokale zaken elite is de atmosfeer relaxt en ook geschikt voor de toeristische middenklasse. Het eten van de Italiaanse chef is top en de wijnselectie is van gelijke hoogte. </eat>

Probably the Do and the other similar listings are the same way. Actually, now I'm wondering if these templates are universal across all versions since it uses <> instead of {}. Hmm...(WT-nl) Texugo 29 mei 2007 21:45 (EDT) (WT-nl) Texugo 29 mei 2007 21:45 (EDT)

You're definitely right about the template/sjabloon pages. But, before I start, what do you mean by the use of <> instead of {}? {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men}

I mean the syntax is <eat> and not {{eat}} and I can't find the template page for it-- it's not Sjabloon:eat like one would expect. We might have to talk to Evan about making a Dutch version of that. (WT-nl) Texugo 30 mei 2007 04:39 (EDT)

Mmm, template:eat looks weird to me (read: unclear how that functions). For now I will update the instructions for the listings for the Dutch site. {(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 30 mei 2007 04:50 (EDT)}

1000

We hebben bijna duizend bestemmingen!

Dat was idd het doel van de acties van de afgelopen week.{(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men}

We hebben er duizend --> dan kunnen we in het lijstje staan van de "meer dan duizend" op Wikitravel Engels :-)

Wel dat is TOF! 1000 X dank!!!

=de 7+-2regel

Ik weet dat je een vermelding hebt gemaakt van de 7+-2 regel, ik vind hem nergens terug, kan je me de link geven?

groeten

--(WT-nl) Canshun 13 jul 2007 05:47 (EDT)

Hier de pagina Project:7 /-2regel (heb hem ook een prominentere plaats in het stijlhandboek gegeven.) PS: stukje over attracties verplaatst naar de overleg pagina Project:Beschrijvingen van attracties {{(WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 14 jul 2007 02:55 (EDT)}}

sorteren op artikelgrootte

3wisemen, weet jij hoe je kan sorteren op artikelgrootte? Bijvoorbeeld de top-100 van de grootste artikel weergeven. Dat is handig om de goede artikels te vinden, over het algemeen zijn dat grote artikels.

Testruimte

Regio's van [[]]
[[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]] · [[]]

Dode knoppen

Beste 3wisemen, misschien wist je het al, maar als je op "bewerk" klinkt, ontbreken de afbeeldingen voor "vet", "cursief" enzovoort. Groeten, (WT-nl) Riki 19 aug 2007 10:08 (EDT)

Laat maar, op de Engelse wikitravel heb je het ook, dus het probleem is meer algemeen. (WT-nl) Riki 19 aug 2007 13:57 (EDT)

3wisemen

dag 3wisemen, de laatste tijd heb ik je wat minder gezien, toch niet omwille van ons meningsverschil van de licenties (wikipedia-wikitravel?) en het feit dat ik een geschiedenisartikel heb overgenomen, mag ik hopen. groeten --(WT-nl) Canshun 4 sep 2007 03:51 (EDT)

Ola Canshun Zeker niet omwille van zoiets ;-) Nee het is druk op het werk, moest weekenden werken en had weekendjes weg op het programma staan. Kijk wel vaak, maar heb dan weinig tijd;-(

vvv

WereldPagina

Met verbazing las ik deze pagina: [[1]]. Blijkbaar is de Engelse Wikitravel al zo bekent, dat men beweert de Nederlandse versie te zijn en met deze pagina lezers lokt naar WereldPagina. Ken jij dit al? Groeten, --(WT-nl) Rein N. 15 okt 2007 05:08 (EDT)

Yep, is bekend en volgens mij niet zoveel aan te doen.....;-(

Welkom terug, vakantie gehad? Ik heb het verhaal even naar Interbrands ge-email. Ik heb alles zo goed mogelijk op orde gehouden. -- --(WT-nl) Rein N. 25 okt 2007 02:43 (EDT)

Nieuwe Hoofdpagina

dag 3wisemen, ik werk aan een nieuwe hoofdpagina, Hoofdpagina2, als deze goed bevonden wordt door de wikigemeenschap kan dat de nieuwe hoofdpagina worden. Deze is gebaseerd op de Engelse hoofdpagina.

Leuk! Veel succes. (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men

1500 bestemmingen!

Vandaag hebben we 1500 bestemmingen bereikt. Volgens mij was het Port Moresby.... --(WT-nl) Jeroen020 7 nov 2007 09:47 (EST)

artikel status

Je bent behoorlijk bezig vandaag, het lijkt op een voorjaarsschoonmaak. Bedankt voor de vertaling van de uitleg over de artikel status. Het leek me van belang, dat hier duidelijkheid in kwam. --(WT-nl) Groeten, Rein N. 11 jan 2008 07:09 (EST)

Nog wat vroeg voor de schoonmaak, maar het lijkt er idd wel op  ;-)) Verder de artikel-status: graag gedaan. Aanvullingen en verbeteringen zijn welkom. (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men

Barcelona

Er zijn mensen, die deze pagina naar hun hand willen zetten. --(WT-nl) Groeten, Rein N. 20 jan 2008 22:53 (EST)

Je hebt inmiddels ook wel gemerkt, dat er wat aam de hand is op genoemde pagina. --(WT-nl) Groeten, Rein N. 21 jan 2008 16:50 (EST)

Doen

• Neem de Polybahn, een 19th century funicular, up the steep hill for a fine view. Starts at tram station Central and goes up to the ETH. Zone 10 ZVV ticket is valid. Nice terrace up there. During the week, the student cafeteria below the terrace is also open to the public.
• Go skiing by train - buy a snow'n'rail ticket (train & skipass) at the Hauptbahnhof during winter months, train out in morning, back in evening. Flumserberg is the closest large ski-resort, popular with people from Zurich, with a good range of runs for beginners and experts.
• Take a trip on the Zürichsee with one of the two old steam ships. There are a few different routes you can choose from, which will vary mainly in the distance. Or rent a small rowboat.
• Go up Uetliberg, a hill overlooking Zurich. You can hike up, or take a train from the main station. Enjoy the 360 degree view from a tall viewing tower (not for vertigo suferrers!). This is also the start of the planetenweg (planetary walk), an 8 mile walk along the ridge with models of the planets along the way. These are scaled down in true porportion to the solar system. To look at Zürich from the other hills, go to the Irchel (Tram station Milchbuck) or Käferberg (Bucheggplatz, walk up the hill and keep left of the forest).
• Go club-hopping Zürich has proportionately the largest number of clubs per capita in Europe. Pick up a free copy of the 20 Minuten (20 minutes) paper and start exploring.
• Go for a bike ride! You can get free bikes, skates or other fun transport at several stops throughout town. Beware though that biking within the city is only for the experienced, as trams and buses frequent the roads and tram tracks are a serious hazard to inexperienced cyclists.
• The Grossmunster sometimes has organ concerts in the evenings. Check the front door for notices.
• Explore the full and vast selection of foods and condiments available at any Swiss supermarket, heavily influenced by cultures of all the countries around Switzerland. Migros is everywhere and cheap for Swiss standards; Coop is slightly more expensive but has a greater selection of high quality foods; Globus at Lowenplatz has a more upscale supermarket in the basement which is worth at least a look at.

Don't

Avoid reaching/ visiting Zurich on May 1. The city is on a Labor Day/ May Day holiday. The trams don't run for half the day so getting around could be a problem.

Events

• Streetparade. Currently the biggest open air techno rave in Europe. It happens one day each year on the second Saturday of August, during which trucks which function as mobile soundsystems ("Love mobiles") start driving along the lake side, starting from the east at Utoquai and ending at the west at Hafen Enge. Every year this event attracts nearly a million visitors who dance in the streets to the music which you can hear from anywhere in the city. After the Streetparade the party doesn't stop, there are open air parties along the route until midnight and club parties at various locations in town until late the next day, to keep the party going. Don't be surprised if the city isn't so clean the next day. http://www.streetparade.ch
• Swiss national day on August 1st. Celebrations are carried out in many cities in the evenings and fireworks are launched at night. Watch them over the lake, or if you're experienced with safely launching fireworks yourself, you can buy them in the days leading up to the national holiday and have fun. The display over the Rheinfall, one hour away by S-Bahn, is also extremely popular.
• Zuri Fascht, which occurs every 3 years (last in 2007), a weekend festival celebrating Zurich.

Learn

• ETH Zürich (Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule) [2] is one of most renowned technical universities in Europe.
• University of Zurich [3]

Work

Switzerland has a very strict labor market. You will need a work permission visa and promotion from an employer.

For citizens of the old EU-15 states the bilateral agreements made it easier to gain a temporary work permit typically for 5 years, renewable. Due to quota restrictions (which will be lifted during 2007) often a 1 year permit is issued to EU applicants as such candidates can repeatedly renew even these 1 year permits. Legally, EU applicants have the same status as Swiss applicants when applying for jobs (employer does not need to justify hiring them, and must hire them in preference to non-EU/non-Swiss applicants if skills are equivalent).

For all other citizenships you need a company behind you and you must have skills that are rare in the Swiss (or EU!) labor market.

Working without permission can lead to a night in prison and deportation depending on you and the agreement with your home country.

Buy

Bahnhofsstrasse

For shopping in Zürich there are three different areas in the centre:

• Bahnhofstrasse, which runs from the Zürich Train Main station "Hauptbahnhof" right down to the lake. Bahnhofsstrasse is famous for being one of the most exclusive and expensive shopping streets in the world. Here you can get anything from diamond rings to chocolate and fur coats. Globus and Jelmoli are two fiercely competitive department stores, both of whom carry items from many high-end brands.
• Niederdorf, which is the Old Part of Zurich and expands from "Bellevue" by the Lake right to "Central" which is just over the River from the train station. The Niederdorf is more for young people. Aside from a lot of fast food places you will find a lot of trendy clothes stores here.
• Löwenstrasse, which runs west of Bahnhofstrasse from the main train station, has lower range shops and a large branch of Migros, a department store chain.

Swiss clocks and watches

You may be disappointed to know that most of the cheap watches and clocks in Switzerland are imported from China and Japan for their cheap quartz movements (including most of the wall clocks and alarm clocks sold at department stores, for example). Don't purchase a "Migros Budget" clock for CHF8 thinking it is a Swiss clock! Nevertheless, real Swiss-made clocks are still well-known for their quality and reliability, and intricate mechanics. The following are true Swiss-made watches:

• Swatch, possibly your best bet for a "cheap" Swiss watch (CHF40-100) and perhaps better suited for the younger generation. Available in their stores on Bahnhofstrasse and various other locations, or in department stores.
• M-Watch, based on both Mondaine and Migros and available in Migros Electronics stores such as the one on the 2nd floor of the Lowenplatz location. Also relatively inexpensive (CHF40-100). Do not confuse this with "M-Budget" which is an imported cheap watch.
• Mondaine is known for their use of the famous SBB railway clock face. You can buy a replica of the SBB clock as a watch or a wall clock in most major railway stations, among other locations. However, you should note that most of them do not replicate the hallmark smooth movement of the second hand for 58.5 seconds followed by the 1.5 second pause that is characteristic of real SBB railway clocks, but they do replicate the clock face. They are quartz, and the price may seem a little inflated to you (CHF130-180). The vast majority of SBB railway clocks are actually produced by Mobatime (Moser-Baer AG), not Mondaine, even though Mondaine's name appears on some of the larger clocks such as the Treffpunkt in Zurich HB.
• Mid-range brands (CHF 100 - CHF 500) can be found at clock and watch stores throughout the city. Just walk in and have a look if you're interested.
• Upper-end watches and clocks, such as Rolex, are also sold, but you should probably do more research into them than you can find here. If you just want to stare at some of the most expensive watches for sale, take a look at the Bucherer store window at Bahnhofstrasse and see what a CHF 25000 watch looks like.

Swiss Chocolate

• Frey is a budget chocolate brand sold in Migros supermarkets, and though very low end in Swiss terms, is still excellent for a budget brand and probably better than most chocolate from elsewhere. Expect CHF 1.20 - 2.00 for a 100g bar.

• Lindt is available at the Coop and other supermarkets besides Migros for CHF 2 - 2.50, but they are sold at about half the supermarket price at the factory store, a 15-minute walk from the Kilchberg S-Bahn stop. Hours are limited (Mon-Thu 0900-1700, Fri 0900-1600). A fantastic place to stock up on chocolate at bargain prices. They also sometimes sell factory rejects (when they happen for various reasons such as filling showing through) at even cheaper prices. If Germany is on your itinerary you can also stop at the Lindt factory store in Aachen which is huge.

• The larger Coop supermarkets carry many brands, including Lindt, Camille Bloch, Goldkenn, and others, including all sorts of alcohol-filled chocolates.

• Teuscher is an upscale confiserie that specializes in truffles. There are a few locations including Bahnhofstrasse.

Bestand:Sprungli zurich.jpg

Sprüngli

• Sprüngli is a Zürich institution that offers a variety of sweet and savory goodies including a wide variety of chocolates, from hand-made truffles to special chocolate bars. There are locations throughout the city, including Bahnhofstrasse and inside Zurich HB. Some specialities include the Luxemburgerli, a sort of soft macaroon resembling a hamburger in looks but is actually completely pastry and cream, and comes in a variety of flavors, the Truffe du Jour, a chocolate truffle that is made daily from raw cream and is meant to be consumed immediately; and the extraordinary Grand Cru Sauvage truffle, made from wild cacao beans from Bolivia. Most items are rather pricey but worth it. The flagship store on the Paradeplatz is a very popular spot for breakfast, lunch and afternoon tea. Try their berry-filled muesli - it's like no other muesli you've ever had. There are two handy stores at the Kloten airport for last-minute gifts to bring home.

• St. Jakobs Confiserie

Swiss Handcrafts

• Schweizer Heimatwerk (Schweizer Heimatwerk) [4], Uraniastr. 1 on the Limmat river. Also branches in the Hauptbahnhof (main station), airport, and Rennweg 14 in the Bellevue area. Quality Swiss handcrafts and other Swiss-made products presented in a gallery-like setting. You won't find many cuckoo clocks and the like here (cuckoo clocks are not really Swiss, they are from the Black Forest (Schwarzwald) in Germany!), the emphasis is on real traditional crafts and the work of modern craftspeople. You will find things like sleek modern handblown glassware and beautiful handcarved wooden items from the Appenzell region. A worthwhile visit even if you just browse.

Markets

• Flohmarkt Bürkliplatz (Fleamarket) at Bürkliplatz, in the Bellevue area near the Stadelhofen station, every Saturday from 6 to 15:30, May-October. Fairly relaxed yet large flea market with many interesting stalls. Some Pictures
• Flohmarkt Kanzlei (Fleamarket) at Helvetiaplatz. A big fleamarket with sometimes more than 400 stalls. Open every Saturday from 8 to 16:00. Website (german)
• Other Fleamarkets. A list (german) of other Fleamarkets in the area of Zurich.

Swiss army knives

• Coop City in Bahnhofstrasse sells the Victorinox line at uninflated prices, although you won't get additional bells and whistles like customized faceplates or engraving. Quite possibly many other department stores will also carry them.
• Any cutlery shop will probably carry both Victorinox and Wenger lines of products. However, do make sure they are not inflating the price. For example, a SwissChamp (possibly the most popular model) should be retailed at CHF78 (2007).

Other

• Pastorini Spielzeug is a high-end toy store located near the river at Weinplatz 3.
• There is an English language bookstore at the intersection of Bahnhofstrasse and Rennweg.

Eat

The quintessential Zürich dish is Zürigschnätzlets, veal in a cream and wine sauce. Various kinds of grilled Wurst (sausages) are also popular. These are most often accompanied by boiled potatoes, Rösti, a Swiss potato pancake (grated potato, formed into a pancake then panfried until crisp in butter or oil) or Chnöpfli, in German sometimes called Spätzle, (small noodle dumplings).

Veal is still very popular, though the use of turkey and other meats as a substitute is growing.

While Fondue (melted cheese in a central pot, dip bread into it) and Raclette (cheese melted in small portions, served with potatoes and pickles) are not really local to Zürich (they come from the Valais region of Switzerland) they are commonly available at restaurants aimed at tourists.

The bread available in Zürich is generally delicious. There are many varieties, and your best bet is to go to a bakery or a supermarket in the morning or just after work hours, when most people are doing their shopping and bread is coming out fresh. Combine it with a trip to the supermarket to assemble your own lunch in your hotel with authentic cheeses and anything else.

Try grilled Bratwurst from street stands, served with a large crusty roll of sourdough bread and optional mustard, or sandwiches made with fresh baked Bretzeln (large, soft pretzels). A typically Swiss bread is the Zopf, a braided soft bread that is commonly served on Sundays (the other name for it is Sonntagszopf).

For breakfast, try a bowl of Muesli, which was invented as a health food in Switzerland. The Sprüngli confectionery store tea rooms serve a deluxe version of this fiber-filled cereal with whole milk, crushed berries and cream. You can also do what locals do and buy a bag of Muesli and milk at the supermarket and eat it yourself. Farmer Croc, among other brands is recommendable.

There are a huge variety of cheeses available at the supermarkets, speciality stores and markets, as well as all kinds of hams and dried sausages. Dairy products are generally delicious, especially the butter. Speaking of which ... do not miss the supermarkets! You should take a thorough look through Migros or Coop and maybe even assemble your own lunch or dinner some time. Even the cheap, budget prepackaged desserts in the supermarket exceed the quality of what you are probably used to. Switzerland, being at the center of Europe, gets influenced by all of the cultures around it and this is very evident in the supermarkets.

For those with a sweet tooth, there's a huge variety of chocolates to enjoy, from the cheapest chocolate bar to individually hand-made truffles. (See the Shopping section above). The chocolate bar displays at the supermarkets will overwhelm you! Also enjoy pastries and cakes from the various Konditorei scattered around town. A typical cake is the Mandelfisch, an almond cake shaped like a fish.

Like any proper European city, Zürich abounds with cafés where you can enjoy a leisurely cup of coffee, glass of wine or other beverage, and watch the world go by.

There are many international dining options available too. The current hot trend seems to be pan-Asian noodle/rice/sushi places.

Vegetarian food is easy to find throughout the city; vegans may have a little trouble because cheese is used generously in most food, but should be fine living off supermarkets at the very least. Hiltl, the first vegetarian-only restaurant in Europe, is also worth a visit, and your meal is priced by weight from the buffet.

Budget

• The Migros and Coop supermarkets (several branches all over the city) are good places to assemble an inexpensive and delicious picnic lunch consisting of freshly baked bread, cheese or ham and fresh fruit. Migros Gourmessa is the 'gourmet' takeaway counter, available in larger Migros stores including the Migros City branch at Löwestrasse. The Coop Bahnhofbrücke branch near the main station also has a small fast-food restaurant. Note: the Migros branch in the main station is open on Sundays when most other stores are closed, and also until 9pm on weekdays.
• Lee's take-away (Preyergasse 8 in the Niederdorf). Stand-up place serving excellent large portions of Asian food. Special student dishes under 10CHF.
• Molino at the Limmatquai and near Stauffacher for Italian Food
• New-Point sells kebaps, (1) at Langstrasse, (2) near the police station by the Sihl between main station and Stauffacher (Kaserne), (3) at Albisriederplatz (4) at Hardstrasse near Pfingstweidstrasse
• Jelmoli, St. Annahof and Manor department store restaurant for a cheap buffet lunch, good salad and vegetables stands. All at Bahnhofstrasse (not evenings). The large Migros supermarkets (those with two or three big orange M's) also have restaurants in the store.
• Rheinfelder Bierhalle In this huge and smoky restaurant you get good-value food and rich portions (only try the Jumbo Jumbo Cordon-Bleu when really hungry..). Cheap beer. At the beginning of the Niederdorf (near Central).
• Millennium Restaurant Offers great pizzas, large hamburgers, spicy kebabs and other Italian and Turkish dishes at reasonable prices. Staff is very friendly and service is great. Perfect for lunch or a late-night snack. Located on Limmatplatz (Limmatstrasse at Langstrasse) right across the X-tra bar.
• Vorderer Sternen Grill Zurich's most famous sausage stand next to the UBS bank building at Bellevue. Red or white sausage for 6CHF, piece of bread and (hot!) mustard is included.Located at 22 Theaterstrasse.

Mid-range

• Rosalys near Bellevue for typical Swiss food including Älplermacrone (pasta with apple purée); excellent cocktail bar, too
• Commercio near Stadelhofen station (Mühlebachstrasse) for excellent pasta and a busy atmosphere
• Commi-Halle near Central for Italian food.
• Swiss Chuchi in the Niederdorf. Classic Swiss food for tourists, but good none the less.
• Zeughauskeller at Paradeplatz offers hearty sausages, stews, rösti potato etc. in a Brauhaus-like setting. Touristy, but good and large portions. Historical (built in 1487) building.
• Kropf Just down the street from the Zeughauskeller, offers similar fare in a slightly more refined setting. Beautiful painted ceiling.
• Globus Bellevue: this relatively new branch of the Globus department store in the Bellevue near the Stadelhofen station is totally dedicated to food. There is a large eatery on the ground floor that serves various fusion-type foods (decent noodle bowl) and a passable sushi bar. The ground floor has a gourmet food market, and upstairs there are kitchen wares.
• Sprüngli Paradeplatz at Paradeplatz. The flagship store of the Sprüngli confectionery store chain has a beautiful turn-of-the-century style dining room upstairs that is extremely popular for breakfast, lunch and afternoon tea. Choose from the menu or from the gorgeous display case filled with beautiful cakes, tarts, open-face and regular sandwiches. Try the muesli! Great people watching too, since this is the place for an after-shopping snack for the rich ladies of Zürich.
• King Curry near Bahnhof Wiedikon (trams 9 and 14), offers a good value daily Indian lunch buffet.
• Masala near Stauffacher with Indian food
• Hiltl [5] the oldest vegetarian restaurant in Europe (from 1890). Behind Jelmoli department store (Sihlstrasse 102). Reponed in March 2007 after renovation work. Phone: 044 227 70 00
• Tibits behind the Opera house at Seefeldstrasse is the fast-food outlet of Hiltl, Europe's oldest vegetarian restaurant. Offers a nice self-service buffet of fresh veggies and fruit and a surprising variety. Try the freshly squeezed juices.
• Outback Lodge at Bahnhof Stadelhofen. Unrelated to the U.S. Outback Steakhouse chain. Enjoy Aussie tucker like ostrich, kangaroo, and crocodile - as well as more conventional fare. Popular with locals as well as expats. Has a hopping bar scene (see Drink section). Also a branch in Winterthur.
• Iroquois tex-mex food in the trendiest part of town, with the best margueritas in Zurich. Seefeldstrasse 120
• Tiffin's great place for Asian food. Crowded, closed on Sundays. Seefeldstrasse between Kreuzstrasse and Feldeggstrasse
• Lily's great Thai and other Asian food. Especially recommended: huge portions of Thai curry. Langstrasse between the railway and Limmatplatz. Come before 19 or after 21 if you don't want to wait.
• Nooba Pan-asian noodle bar at Kreuzplatz, a short walk up the hill from Stadelhofen station. Stylish setting, attentive and multi-lingual service and a broad selection of freshly prepared noodle, rice and curry dishes.
• Nooch Yet another Pan-Asian noodle, rice and curry joint, at Heinrichstrasse 267, opposite the Cinemax movie multiplex. Also has a sushi bar.
• Ristoranto Toscano [6] a very good italian restaurant in the old part of the city (Niederdorf). Located at Schmidgasse 17. You should try the Spaghetti al Bacio! Closed for lunch on saturday and all day on sunday.
• Restaurant Eisenhof has the warm feel of an old pub. The house specialty is horse steak, served on a hot stone with fries. Gasometerstrasse 20

Splurge

• Widder Hotel has a very cool bar - great piano music and very cool red leather and halogen lighting.
• Zunfthaus Zur Waag - near Bahnofstrasse - very authentic Swiss high end restaurant. To ensure your meal does not get cold - they split your order into 2 plates and bring you one at a time....
• Bindella Great Italian Food - very authentic - Address: In Gassen 6 off Bahnhofstrasse. Phone 44 221 25 46.
• Le Dezaley hidden in a small street from Limmatquai near the Grossmünster, with traditional Swiss food from the French-speaking Kanton Waadt (Vaud)
• Blaue Ente at the far end of tram 2 and 4 near Bahnhof Tiefenbrunnen.
• LaSalle in the Schiffbauhalle, stylish and romantic.
• Kronenhalle at Bellevue is the city's most famous restaurant where all the glitterati go to see and be seen. Good Swiss food and heavenly chocolate mousse are one reason to go, the opportunity to dine among original artwork by famous Swiss and European artists (who payed in paintings instead of money) the other. Dress nicely, and treat yourself to a drink at the classy bar before or after your meal.
• The restaurants at the top of the Uetliberg are great to combine a nice view of town (a hike in the summer) and some great food. It also has a cheaper self-service area.

Drink

General

Zurich has a lot of places to go out. There are a lot of clubs, restaurants, cafés, bars but also many museums and theaters.

Event calendar: Züritipp (German language)

What to drink: Beer, Swiss white wine: e.g. Fendant. Swiss red wine is not overly recommended: Spanish red wine is generally good value here. At apéro time (after work), you will find many people drinking a Cüpli (glass of sparkling wine).

Bars (centre)

• Nachtflug stylish, coffee and some snacks during the day, large choice of drinks at night. Stüssihofstatt 4 (Niederdorf).
• Outback Lodge near Stadelhofen station. Australian in theme, drinks and food, but also well visited by the locals.
• Blue Note jazz club, quite expensive but good atmosphere. Stockerstrasse 45.
• James Joyce bar where the writer himself used to go. Now mostly frequented by bankers. Pelikanstrasse 8.
• Oliver Twist is a Irish- / British-style pub with a good atmosphere, many English-speaking foreigners, own small court. Rindermarkt 6.
• Öpfelchammere (apple chamber). Not a real pub or café: they only serve wine or water. But if you succeed in climbing over the roof beams, you get a free glass of wine to drink hanging upside down and you can mark your name into the wood afterwards. Rindermarkt 12.
• Widder bar by far the best stocked whisky bar in town. In the famous hotel of the same name. Widdergasse 6.
• Corazón, Zähringerplatz 11, +41 1 261 09 59. [7] A Spanish themed bar with a good selection of wines and excellent service.
• Bohemia, Trendy place popular for its coffee during the day and an even better nightlife. Usually a popular place for college students. Kreutzplatz (Just up from Stadelhofen)

Bars (Kreis 4 & 5 and beyond)

Kreis 4 & 5 are two areas west of central Zurich, probably the most interesting & colourful.

Kreis 4 (west Zurich)

• Casablanca bar at the Langstrasse near Helvetiaplatz
• Xenix small arthouse cinema with busy beer garden in summer, the choice of students, bohemians & bicycle messengers posing with their fixies, Kanzleistrasse 56 by Helvetiaplatz [8]
• Total Bar tiny bar serving a range of Zurich's microbrews, always good music, Tellstrasse 19 (a block east of the Langstrasse)
• El Lokal bar, restaurant & intimate gig venue attracting alternative crowd, "soccer vs elvis vs che guevara" themed, Gessnerallee 11 on the Sihl [9]

Kreis 5 (north west Zurich)

• 4. Akt for teens and twens near Escher-Wyss Platz
• Hard One roof lounge on top the Cinemax complex, older crowd, very expensive but stylish, near Escher-Wyss Platz
• Riffraff [10] cinema bar attracting a largely alternative crowd, Neugasse 57, near Langstrasse.
• Moods [11] jazz club in the Schiffbau complex, concerts on Saturdays, in the Schiffsbau near Escher-Wyss Platz.
• Acapulco bar with comfortable seats, Neugasse 56, near Langstrasse, on week-ends quite crowded. Every sunday karaoke evening.

Clubs

Zurich has proportionally more clubs than any other city in Europe. You will find anything from very "fancy" Clubs to places you can just chill. If you want, you can go to a club every night. There is always a Club that has a party going, and Zurich's young make sure to splash all their income on going out.

Three of the most renowned clubs are converted parts of the old Toni dairy factory at Förrlibuckstrasse:

• Toni Molkerei[12]
• Dachkantine ("roof canteen", closed down February 2006)
• Rohstofflager ("raw material storage"). This one also does concerts.

A lot of Clubs are located in the so called Zurich West (District 5)

• X-Tra The probably biggest Club near the Limmatplatz
• Hive Club (former Club UG) [13]
• Code Club
• K5-Club
• Säulenhalle[14]
• Indochine , Kaufleuten , St. Germain and Mascotte are the more fancy clubs in Zurich
• Zukunft,Abart and Helsinki are for a more alternative and artsy crowd

Daily Eventcalendar: Usgang.ch (German) This internet site features a Calendar which lists all the parties that are on everyday. Very good to decide where to go before you actually leave for the evening.

Gay and Lesbian travellers

• Rathauscafé. Coffee and a croissant in the morning, moving over to sparkling wine in the afternoon and early evening. Nice terrace in the summer. Mixed crowd, friendly service. Limmatquai.
• Cranberry opposite Rathauscafé Very crowded on Fridays and Saturdays 20-24 before the boys head to the clubs.
• Barfüsser once Europe's oldest gay bar, it has now been converted into a fancy and large lounge and sushi place. More relaxed atmosphere, mixed crowd. Spitalgasse 4.
• T&M Disco club and Aaaah house club, [15]. Open most days but only crowded on Friday and Saturday. Share the same house and entry ticket at Marktgasse 14, you can switch atmosphere as much as you like. 23CHF cover charge on busy nights.
• Sunday trash Gay and Lesbian party in Labor bar, Schiffbaustrasse. Place to be on Sunday night, 21-03h. 10CHF cover charge.

Cope

The Wings lounge (www.wings-lounge.ch) on Limmatquai have free wireless internet. The McDonalds at Langstrasse, too.

The Urania Internet Cafe (www.cafe.ch) have PCs, printers and a selection of snacks. Close to Bahnhofstrasse and above a car park!

If you're on a budget, don't stay out too late -- the "N" night buses only run on weekends, and when they run, they run only once per hour and you must purchase a Nachtzuschlag for CHF5 (2007) from the machine and validate it before boarding. On work nights there is no public transportation at all after about 0:30 (although taxis still exist in case you're stuck).

Stores are generally closed on Sundays including all supermarkets in the city, except those in the main train station and airport. The Migros Shops in Zurich HB and the Trainstation Zürich Enge are the only supermarkets open on Sunday.

Get out

Short excursions from Zurich:

• Winterthur - Since in winter there is little to do outdoors, people flock to this city, the city of museums.
• The Rheinfall, a large-volume waterfall. Take the S-Bahn to Winterthur and change there for another S-Bahn to the station called Schloss Laufen am Rheinfall.
• Schaffhausen - pretty town located very near the Rheinfall, but accessible even faster than the Rheinfall by direct IC and ICE trains.
• Stein am Rhein - a pretty town, accessible by S-Bahn
• Rapperswil - pretty town on the other end of the Zurichsee, accessible by S-Bahn or boat, famous for its rose gardens.
• Lucerne (Luzern) - pretty city, home of the transport museum, and further excursions possible, less than 1 hour away by train.
• Arth-Goldau - your gateway to the Rigi railway, also less than 1 hour away.
• Bucheggplatz - a place where you can book eggs for pick-up the next day.

Other further away easy excursions from Zurich include:

• Sankt-Gallen - famous for its convent and extremely ornate Stiftsbibliothek. Also the point of access for the Appenzeller Bahn system, which can take you to the pretty town of Appenzell where there is a cheese factory you can visit.
• Solothurn - a very pretty baroque town, accessible by frequent ICN (direct) and R (via Olten) trains.
• Einsiedeln
• Baden
• Basel - near the triple point between France, Germany, and Switzerland.

Access to most other parts of Switzerland is extremely easy thanks to the efficient and frequent SBB train system. Other locations easily accessible from Zurich worth a complete visit in their own right include:

• Bern - the capital of Switzerland, nice looking city, one hour away by IC train.
• Chur and Landquart - although not so much to see within these cities, they are your starting points for exploration of the nature-rich and mountainous canton of Graubunden and the Rhaetische Bahn system which runs over naturally scenic routes.
• Interlaken - your gateway to the Berner Oberland, an incredibly scenic part of Switzerland with some of the highest peaks in the Alps. You can continue from there using the (also incredibly touristy) Berner Oberlandbahn to the Lauterbrunnen valley and beyond, or get off somewhere and hike away from the touristyness if you are fit for it.

Jungfraujoch, you can definitely daytrip it from Zurich, although there is so much more that the Berner Oberland offers that you'll be missing if you don't spend more time there. Tip: The direct Zurich-Interlaken trains run via Bern. However, if you have time to spare, try reaching Interlaken by going to Luzern first and then taking a train from Luzern to Interlaken (Golden Pass or Zentralbahn). It's a much more scenic route.

• Lausanne is 2.5 hours away by train and is a gateway to the Lavaux vineyard region.
• Geneva is 3 hours away.
• The Italian-speaking region of Ticino including the fortified city of Bellinzona are up to 3 hours away.
• The canton of Valais includes the famed Matterhorn and other gorgeous scenery, but is a little harder to reach from Zurich as there are no direct trains to these areas. Nevertheless, if you know where you are going, www.sbb.ch can give you the schedules.
• The Schwarzwald (Black Forest) of Germany is also easily accessible from Zurich. ICE trains run every 2 hours during the day to Stuttgart, stopping at Rottweil where you can find decent connections to most places in the Black Forest. There is also the Bodensee ("Lake Constance") which you can reach by good connections to Konstanz.

Zurich is also extremely well-connected to the rest of Europe by train, with direct trains to as far as Barcelona, Belgrade, Amsterdam, Berlin, Budapest, Zagreb, Bari, and Rome, just to name a few.

WikiPedia:Zürich Wikevent:Zürich Dmoz:Europe/Switzerland/Cantons/Zurich/Localities/Zurich/ World66:europe/switzerland/zurich Sjabloon:Tag Sjabloon:Tag Sjabloon:Tag Sjabloon:Tag

Guinee

Nadat u mijn teksten heeft terug gezet vermeld u (Helaas ongedaan moeten maken wegens CopyVio van http://us-africa.tripod.com/consulaatguinee/). Waarom helaas? Wat is uw probleem?

Geen probleem whatsoever. Die tekst was juist van het moment dat ik de teksten meende te moeten verwijderen. (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men

Antwoord

Ok -- --(WT-nl) Rein N. 7 mrt 2008 20:19 (EST)

Afbeeldingen van personen

Wat is ons beleid atv foto's van personen? Op Wikitravel Shared worden herkenbare plaatjes van anderen dan de gebruiker zelf geweerd. Alleen als een activiteit of sport afgebeeld wordt, maakt men een uitzondering. De aanleiding is een van de laatste toevoegingen: Afbeelding:Dekey-sint-truiden.jpg. Niet de zaak, maar het personeel staat er op. Graag je mening -- --(WT-nl) Rein N. 10 mrt 2008 05:43 (EDT)

Hi Rein, je interpretatie van de regels klopt. Zie bewerking ;-) PS: dergelijke opmerkingen kun je beter bij de betreffende pagina neerzetten, of in de kroeg. Groet, (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 10 mrt 2008 12:44 (EDT)

Eindelijk bericht van overzee

Het is iets meer dan ik verwacht had. ;-) Zie de kroeg en in Shared. Groeten --(WT-nl) Rein N. 11 okt 2008 00:19 (EDT)

Spam in Wikitravelpagina's

Er is weer een anonieme spammer terug, die het voor zien heeft op de pagina's Wikitravel:Artikel status‎ en Wikitravel:Artikel sjablonen. blok aub. --(WT-nl) Rein N. 18 okt 2008 00:59 (EDT)

Welkom terug

Blij dat je er weer bent. Het vaste trio is weer compleet. Goede reis gehad? --(WT-nl) Rein N. 3 jan 2009 03:31 (EST)

Sorry men. Ik had te laat jullie vraag gezien om niets meer te doen aan Gent. Ik denk dat ik nog 2 dingen heb bijgevoegd. Sorry voor de last Ludo

Verwijderingsnominatie afbeelding

Is het mogelijk te linken i.p.v. op volle grootte in te voegen? --(WT-nl) Rein N. 8 jan 2009 02:24 (EST)

Moet mogelijk zijn, en ik dacht dat ook gedaan te hebben. Maar eigenlijk best handig, zo zie je wel meteen dat het geen reisfoto is ;) (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 8 jan 2009 10:48 (EST)

hallo 3wisemen

Het was erg stil de afgelopen tijd. Misschien dat we daarom wat ingedut waren. --(WT-nl) Rein N. 3 mei 2009 04:17 (EDT)

hahaha! Fijn dat jij er nog wel bent. (WT-nl) 3 Wise Men 3 mei 2009 04:19 (EDT)